X-Git-Url: http://git.indexdata.com/?p=irspy-moved-to-github.git;a=blobdiff_plain;f=archive%2Fmbox;h=5fc9e023534a40d8b9296d51fed97c8b77cf5b8f;hp=e93186a6f1a0b43a24faf5b59bed74187f32f9eb;hb=ade45f165e997994a570f9e3b46560bbcc1cbf09;hpb=8829f48661eb948a0579665af1288f3015d8ad14 diff --git a/archive/mbox b/archive/mbox index e93186a..5fc9e02 100644 --- a/archive/mbox +++ b/archive/mbox @@ -909,3 +909,530 @@ On the positive side, it makes IRSpy look good in comparison :-) )_v__/\ "It became necessary to destroy the village in order to save it" -- Attributed to an anonymous senior US military officer. +From mike Wed Jun 27 11:29:19 2007 +X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil t nil nil nil nil] + ["1070" "Wednesday" "27" "June" "2007" "12:12:28" "+0200" "Per M. Hansen" "perhans@indexdata.dk" "<4682380C.6040602@indexdata.dk>" "30" "Re: [Fwd: Re: IRSpy testing in Helsinki]" "^From:" nil nil "6" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] + nil) +Return-path: +Envelope-to: mike@indexdata.com +Delivery-date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:13:16 +0200 +Received: from bagel.indexdata.dk [213.150.43.11] + by localhost.localdomain with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.6) + for (single-drop); Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:29:19 +0100 (BST) +Received: from user.indexdata.dk ([213.150.43.10] helo=[10.0.1.61]) + by bagel.indexdata.dk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) + id 1I3UWS-0006OX-JY; Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:13:16 +0200 +Message-ID: <4682380C.6040602@indexdata.dk> +Organization: Index Data ApS +User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +References: <46822480.3070006@indexdata.dk> <18050.13587.950805.441019@localhost.localdomain> +In-Reply-To: <18050.13587.950805.441019@localhost.localdomain> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes +X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 213.150.43.10 +X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: mike@indexdata.com, quinn@indexdata.com, adam@indexdata.dk +X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: perhans@indexdata.dk +X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on bagel.indexdata.dk); SAEximRunCond expanded to false +X-UIDL: h0@"! +To: Mike Taylor +CC: Sebastian Hammer , + Adam Dickmeiss +Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: IRSpy testing in Helsinki] +Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:12:28 +0200 + + + +Mike Taylor skrev: +> Per M. Hansen writes: +> > There seams to be a lot of open bugs on IRSpy. +> +> Yes, though that is largely illusory due to all the wishlisty bits. +> +Ok, but there are some bugs in there like this one +http://bugzilla.indexdata.dk/show_bug.cgi?id=1036. +> > What bugs are there that the Finns can say that is linked to the +> > deliverable of IRSpy? +> +> Isn't that for them to say? I don't think we should draw attention to +> specific bugs: just send the invoice and see whether they say "first +> you need to fix bug X"? +> +Well that is one way of handling it, I guess, but I think that we should +make a formal deliverable. Can we make some kind of package for them +that we can send? + +/Per +> _/|_ ___________________________________________________________________ +> /o ) \/ Mike Taylor http://www.miketaylor.org.uk +> )_v__/\ "So where is the innovation? The innovation is the talking +> paper clip in Microsoft Office. Is that real innovation?" -- +> Mitchell Kertzman, Chairman and CEO, Sybase. +> +> +> + +From mike@miketaylor.org.uk Wed Jun 27 12:16:27 2007 +X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil t nil] + ["1917" "Wednesday" "27" "June" "2007" "12:16:26" "+0100" "Mike Taylor" "mike@indexdata.com" nil "52" "Re: [Fwd: Re: IRSpy testing in Helsinki]" "^From:" nil nil "6" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] + nil) +Return-Path: +X-Original-To: mike +Delivered-To: mike@miketaylor.org.uk +Received: by localhost.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) + id 269BF4D6441A; Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:16:27 +0100 (BST) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Message-ID: <18050.18186.896331.810825@localhost.localdomain> +In-Reply-To: <4682380C.6040602@indexdata.dk> +References: <46822480.3070006@indexdata.dk> + <18050.13587.950805.441019@localhost.localdomain> + <4682380C.6040602@indexdata.dk> +X-Mailer: VM 7.19 under Emacs 21.4.1 +X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +From: Mike Taylor +To: "Per M. Hansen" +Cc: Sebastian Hammer , + Adam Dickmeiss +Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: IRSpy testing in Helsinki] +Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:16:26 +0100 + +Per M. Hansen writes: + > > > There seams to be a lot of open bugs on IRSpy. + > > + > > Yes, though that is largely illusory due to all the wishlisty bits. + > + > Ok, but there are some bugs in there like this one + > http://bugzilla.indexdata.dk/show_bug.cgi?id=1036. + +Ah, well, that one is to do with character sets. You can't possibly +expect that to be fixed! + +Just joking, ha ha. No, the problem with this one is that the +database name, hence the ID, has a space in it: + Z39.50:bissen.odont.au.dk:21/Odontologisk Bibliotek + +That is in fact provoking the same problem as non-ASCII characters in +an ID do, which is that when you submit such an ID as recordIdOpaque +in and Extended Services request, it is interpreted differently from +when it's submitted as part of a record that XS extracts the ID from +itself. It still seems wrong to me that Zebra does this, but it's +possible to work around. + +In fact, I just have: I fixed this in CVS and on the live site. + + > > > What bugs are there that the Finns can say that is linked to + > > > the deliverable of IRSpy? + > > + > > Isn't that for them to say? I don't think we should draw attention to + > > specific bugs: just send the invoice and see whether they say "first + > > you need to fix bug X"? + > + > Well that is one way of handling it, I guess, but I think that we + > should make a formal deliverable. Can we make some kind of package + > for them that we can send? + +Sure thing. Here it is, including the edit-record-with-funny-ID fix +described above. + + _/|_ ___________________________________________________________________ +/o ) \/ Mike Taylor http://www.miketaylor.org.uk +)_v__/\ "A Linux system requires rebooting about as often as a Windoze + system requires re-installing" -- David Joffe. + + + +--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- +multipart/mixed + text/plain (text body -- kept) + application/octet-stream +--- + + + +From mike Thu Jul 5 09:59:05 2007 +X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] + ["3436" "Thursday" "5" "July" "2007" "09:10:32" "+0300" "Juha Hakala" "juha.hakala@helsinki.fi" nil "78" "IRSpy acceptance" "^X-Spam-Status:" nil nil "7" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] + nil) +Return-path: +Envelope-to: mike@indexdata.com +Delivery-date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:30:52 +0200 +Received: from bagel.indexdata.dk [213.150.43.11] + by localhost.localdomain with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.6) + for (single-drop); Thu, 05 Jul 2007 09:59:05 +0100 (BST) +Received: from sender-03.it.helsinki.fi ([128.214.205.141]) + by bagel.indexdata.dk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) + id 1I6Mjh-00057h-G1; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:30:52 +0200 +Received: from orm6.lib.helsinki.fi (orm6.lib.helsinki.fi [128.214.91.244]) + by sender-03.it.helsinki.fi (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l656AWAZ001069 + (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); + Thu, 5 Jul 2007 09:10:32 +0300 +Received: from [128.214.91.248] (oktas-2.lib.helsinki.fi [128.214.91.248]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by orm6.lib.helsinki.fi (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l656AV9H020283 + (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); + Thu, 5 Jul 2007 09:10:31 +0300 +Message-ID: <468C8B58.4020800@helsinki.fi> +User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 128.214.205.141 +X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: dorman@indexdata.com, mike@indexdata.com, quinn@indexdata.com, sondberg@indexdata.com +X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: juha.hakala@helsinki.fi +X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on bagel.indexdata.dk +X-Spam-Level: +X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) +X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on bagel.indexdata.dk) +X-UIDL: Wa%"!eMo!!!38!!+Tm!! +X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham + version=3.0.3 +From: Juha Hakala +To: "Per M. Hansen" , Mike Taylor , + sondberg@indexdata.com, Sebastian Hammer , + Ere Maijala , + Kristiina Hormia , + Annu Jauhiainen , + Pertti Rekala , + =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tuula_Haapam?= + =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E4ki?= , + Kai Ekholm , + Adam Dickmeiss , + Eeva Murtomaa , + David Dorman +Subject: IRSpy acceptance +Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 09:10:32 +0300 + +Hello all, + +The National Library of Finland accepts the IRSpy application, following +the successful beta testing of the software in the library. + +Our billing address is + +Helsingin yliopisto +Kansalliskirjasto / Kirjastoverkkopalvelut +PL 7138 +01051 LASKUT + +Please mention responsibility area code (in Finnish, vastuualuekoodi) +98123. + +I-D is most welcome to announce availability of this application to the +general public. Please mention in the announcement that the development +effort was a cooperative project between I-D and the national library of +Finland. Since I will start vacation next Monday I will not be able to +review the text unless it is sent tomorrow. + +IRSpy is the first implementation of the NISO draft standard +Z39.92-200X. As such it makes it possible to complete the +standardization process. My intention as the chair of the NISO working +group developing the standard is to publish the second draft of it in +August. As far as I know, development of IRSpy did not reveal any +problems in the present draft, so the second one can be published +unaltered. + +We will discuss with Ex Libris Group and WebClarity Software Inc. about +incorporation of IRSpy into, respectively, MetaLib and BookWhere. The +national library has no intention to host IRSpy ourselves in the short +run, and we will never try to run a global site, mainly due to +considerable systems expert time that would require. Moreover, the +present IRSpy database which is apparently inherited from your previous +ZSpy software) is out of date - many databases no longer are available +in the same address where they were located a few years back - and would +require a thorough manual revision. + +A decentralized network of national/regional IRSpy installations, each +concentrating on its geographical area, is the only truly feasible model +for hosting the tool (this does not rule out the possibility of +harvesting the Z39.92 data into a physical union catalogue). One issue +we will most likely discuss in the Autumn here in the national library +is whether maintenance of a national database of Information retrieval +service descriptions using Z39.92 (and IRSpy) will fit within the +national bibliographic responsibilities of the national library. As far +as I am concerned, it is more important to describe how for instance the +national bibliography database can be used for search and retrieval (and +to share this data with other libraries) than catalogue manually some +obscure grey Web literature. Google can do the latter more efficiently +than we, but Google can not and will not be able to deal efficiently +with (a large number of) databases. Due to Z39.92 and IRSpy the national +libraries will have an option to discuss how to deal with databases +within the national bibliographic context. Without a standard to steer +creation and exchange of IR service descriptions and an efficient tool +for creating those descriptions trying to extend national bibliographic +activities to "deep Web" would not have been possible. With the web +archives were are already dealing with the uppermost level of the Web, +and with Z39.92 and IRSpy we have a chance to gain access to the rest of +it. + +Best regards, + +Juha Hakala + +-- + + Juha Hakala + Director, Information Technology + + The National Library of Finland + P.O.Box 15 (Unioninkatu 36, room 503), FIN-00014 Helsinki University + Email juha.hakala@helsinki.fi, tel +358 50 382 7678 + + + + + +From mike@miketaylor.org.uk Thu Jul 5 10:04:22 2007 +X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] + ["4504" "Thursday" "5" "July" "2007" "10:04:22" "+0100" "Mike Taylor" "mike@indexdata.com" nil "103" "[Juha Hakala: IRSpy acceptance]" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] + nil) +Return-Path: +X-Original-To: mike +Delivered-To: mike@miketaylor.org.uk +Received: by localhost.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) + id 850864D6420C; Thu, 5 Jul 2007 10:04:22 +0100 (BST) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Message-ID: <18060.46102.456630.110731@localhost.localdomain> +X-Mailer: VM 7.19 under Emacs 21.4.1 +From: Mike Taylor +To: perhans@indexdata.dk +Subject: [Juha Hakala: IRSpy acceptance] +Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 10:04:22 +0100 + +Excellent news! + +You get that invoice out; I will split my time between DBC's Keystone +Resolver Admin UI work and the Australian Z39.50-to-SRU gateway +(unless you'd prefer to me concentrate on one of them to the exclusion +of the other?) + +------- start of forwarded message ------- +From: Juha Hakala +To: "Per M. Hansen" , Mike Taylor , + sondberg@indexdata.com, Sebastian Hammer , + Ere Maijala , + Kristiina Hormia , + Annu Jauhiainen , + Pertti Rekala , + =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tuula_Haapam?= + =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E4ki?= , + Kai Ekholm , + Adam Dickmeiss , + Eeva Murtomaa , + David Dorman +Subject: IRSpy acceptance +Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 09:10:32 +0300 + +Hello all, + +The National Library of Finland accepts the IRSpy application, following +the successful beta testing of the software in the library. + +Our billing address is + +Helsingin yliopisto +Kansalliskirjasto / Kirjastoverkkopalvelut +PL 7138 +01051 LASKUT + +Please mention responsibility area code (in Finnish, vastuualuekoodi) +98123. + +I-D is most welcome to announce availability of this application to the +general public. Please mention in the announcement that the development +effort was a cooperative project between I-D and the national library of +Finland. Since I will start vacation next Monday I will not be able to +review the text unless it is sent tomorrow. + +IRSpy is the first implementation of the NISO draft standard +Z39.92-200X. As such it makes it possible to complete the +standardization process. My intention as the chair of the NISO working +group developing the standard is to publish the second draft of it in +August. As far as I know, development of IRSpy did not reveal any +problems in the present draft, so the second one can be published +unaltered. + +We will discuss with Ex Libris Group and WebClarity Software Inc. about +incorporation of IRSpy into, respectively, MetaLib and BookWhere. The +national library has no intention to host IRSpy ourselves in the short +run, and we will never try to run a global site, mainly due to +considerable systems expert time that would require. Moreover, the +present IRSpy database which is apparently inherited from your previous +ZSpy software) is out of date - many databases no longer are available +in the same address where they were located a few years back - and would +require a thorough manual revision. + +A decentralized network of national/regional IRSpy installations, each +concentrating on its geographical area, is the only truly feasible model +for hosting the tool (this does not rule out the possibility of +harvesting the Z39.92 data into a physical union catalogue). One issue +we will most likely discuss in the Autumn here in the national library +is whether maintenance of a national database of Information retrieval +service descriptions using Z39.92 (and IRSpy) will fit within the +national bibliographic responsibilities of the national library. As far +as I am concerned, it is more important to describe how for instance the +national bibliography database can be used for search and retrieval (and +to share this data with other libraries) than catalogue manually some +obscure grey Web literature. Google can do the latter more efficiently +than we, but Google can not and will not be able to deal efficiently +with (a large number of) databases. Due to Z39.92 and IRSpy the national +libraries will have an option to discuss how to deal with databases +within the national bibliographic context. Without a standard to steer +creation and exchange of IR service descriptions and an efficient tool +for creating those descriptions trying to extend national bibliographic +activities to "deep Web" would not have been possible. With the web +archives were are already dealing with the uppermost level of the Web, +and with Z39.92 and IRSpy we have a chance to gain access to the rest of +it. + +Best regards, + +Juha Hakala + +-- + + Juha Hakala + Director, Information Technology + + The National Library of Finland + P.O.Box 15 (Unioninkatu 36, room 503), FIN-00014 Helsinki University + Email juha.hakala@helsinki.fi, tel +358 50 382 7678 + + + + +------- end of forwarded message ------- + +From mike@miketaylor.org.uk Thu Jul 5 12:19:58 2007 +X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] + ["4172" "Thursday" "5" "July" "2007" "12:19:58" "+0100" "Mike Taylor" "mike@indexdata.com" nil "94" "IRSpy acceptance" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] + nil) +Return-Path: +X-Original-To: mike +Delivered-To: mike@miketaylor.org.uk +Received: by localhost.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) + id DF6BD4D6420C; Thu, 5 Jul 2007 12:19:58 +0100 (BST) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Message-ID: <18060.54238.847561.812058@localhost.localdomain> +In-Reply-To: <468C8B58.4020800@helsinki.fi> +References: <468C8B58.4020800@helsinki.fi> +X-Mailer: VM 7.19 under Emacs 21.4.1 +From: Mike Taylor +To: Juha Hakala +Cc: "Per M. Hansen" , + sondberg@indexdata.com, + Sebastian Hammer , + Ere Maijala , + Kristiina Hormia , + Annu Jauhiainen , + Pertti Rekala , + =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tuula_Haapam?= + =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E4ki?= , + Kai Ekholm , + Adam Dickmeiss , + Eeva Murtomaa , + David Dorman +Subject: IRSpy acceptance +Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 12:19:58 +0100 + +Juha Hakala writes: + > Hello all, + > + > The National Library of Finland accepts the IRSpy application, + > following the successful beta testing of the software in the + > library. + +Thanks, Juha, that's great news. + + > Our billing address is + > + > Helsingin yliopisto + > Kansalliskirjasto / Kirjastoverkkopalvelut + > PL 7138 + > 01051 LASKUT + > + > Please mention responsibility area code (in Finnish, + > vastuualuekoodi) 98123. + +Per will deal with this. + + > I-D is most welcome to announce availability of this application to + > the general public. Please mention in the announcement that the + > development effort was a cooperative project between I-D and the + > national library of Finland. Since I will start vacation next + > Monday I will not be able to review the text unless it is sent + > tomorrow. + +Thanks, we'll make an announcement. + + > IRSpy is the first implementation of the NISO draft standard + > Z39.92-200X. As such it makes it possible to complete the + > standardization process. My intention as the chair of the NISO + > working group developing the standard is to publish the second + > draft of it in August. As far as I know, development of IRSpy did + > not reveal any problems in the present draft, so the second one can + > be published unaltered. + +Ah, that's very good news. The SRU people, at the their recent +meeting, didn't know the status of Z39.92, and were worried that it +might be dead. See the notes at: + http://www.loc.gov:8081/standards/sru/june2007meeting-report.html#zeerex +It might be good to get an announcement out to counter that +perception. + + > We will discuss with Ex Libris Group and WebClarity Software + > Inc. about incorporation of IRSpy into, respectively, MetaLib and + > BookWhere. + +Exciting! + + > The national library has no intention to host IRSpy ourselves in + > the short run, and we will never try to run a global site, mainly + > due to considerable systems expert time that would require. + > Moreover, the present IRSpy database which is apparently inherited + > from your previous ZSpy software) is out of date - many databases + > no longer are available in the same address where they were located + > a few years back - and would require a thorough manual revision. + > + > A decentralized network of national/regional IRSpy installations, + > each concentrating on its geographical area, is the only truly + > feasible model for hosting the tool (this does not rule out the + > possibility of harvesting the Z39.92 data into a physical union + > catalogue). + +Well, whatever you can get funding for :-) + + > One issue we will most likely discuss in the Autumn here in the + > national library is whether maintenance of a national database of + > Information retrieval service descriptions using Z39.92 (and IRSpy) + > will fit within the national bibliographic responsibilities of the + > national library. As far as I am concerned, it is more important to + > describe how for instance the national bibliography database can be + > used for search and retrieval (and to share this data with other + > libraries) than catalogue manually some obscure grey Web + > literature. Google can do the latter more efficiently than we, but + > Google can not and will not be able to deal efficiently with (a + > large number of) databases. Due to Z39.92 and IRSpy the national + > libraries will have an option to discuss how to deal with databases + > within the national bibliographic context. Without a standard to + > steer creation and exchange of IR service descriptions and an + > efficient tool for creating those descriptions trying to extend + > national bibliographic activities to "deep Web" would not have been + > possible. With the web archives were are already dealing with the + > uppermost level of the Web, and with Z39.92 and IRSpy we have a + > chance to gain access to the rest of it. + +Agreed. + + _/|_ ___________________________________________________________________ +/o ) \/ Mike Taylor http://www.miketaylor.org.uk +)_v__/\ "I can't figure out the relationship between Nancy, the stuffed + owl in the garage, and the plates" -- Matt Wedel, in a context + that made some kind of sense at the time. +